I was also originally hoping the Ds would bail out McCarthy simply for the sake of governance. But see below an excerpt from another newsletter yesterday:
=============
Why Democrats might not want to save Kevin.
Let us count the ways — and it’s quite a list: Via the Wapo:
*McCarthy didn’t vote to certify the election on Jan. 6, 2021. The attack on the U.S. Capitol is still raw on Capitol Hill, and Democrats will never forgive McCarthy for voting against certification after the mob was cleared from the building.
*McCarthy said former president Donald Trump was responsible for the Jan. 6 riot — and then, a few weeks later, traveled to Mar-a-Lago and took an infamous picture with Trump with their thumbs up. Democrats are still furious about the incident, which helped revive Trump politically and whitewash the severity of his role on Jan. 6.
*McCarthy worked against the creation of the Jan. 6 select committee, which Democrats viewed as an attempt to protect Trump.
*McCarthy gave the Jan. 6 security footage to since-fired television host Tucker Carlson without releasing it to news outlets.
*McCarthy delivered votes for the Cares Act — a $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief bill passed in 2020 and signed by Trump — and later became highly critical of pandemic relief legislation.
*He worked with Democrats to help put together the microchips manufacturing bill last year and then whipped his party to vote against it.
*McCarthy backed out of a spending agreement he made with President Biden as part of a deal to lift the debt limit less than two weeks after Biden signed the law in an attempt to placate the furious conservatives in his conference. Democrats on the House floor on Saturday chanted, “Keep your word!”
*McCarthy said in August that he would hold a vote on the House floor to open an impeachment inquiry against Biden. In September, on the first day back from summer recess, McCarthy opened an impeachment inquiry and did not hold such a vote.
*On Saturday morning, McCarthy didn’t give lawmakers 72 hours to read the short-term spending bill to keep the government open despite House rules. Republicans argued that it was an amendment and not a full bill so the 72-hour rule didn’t apply. But Democrats were given just minutes to read it and vote on it despite asking Republican leadership for more time. (Democrats deployed stalling tactics to get about two hours to read and discuss the bill.)
*On Sunday, McCarthy went on CBS’s “Face the Nation” and charged Democrats with wanting a shutdown. That infuriated Democrats, who voted nearly unanimously for the government spending bill when fewer than half of Republicans did.
==============
McCarthy effectively did this to himself. If he had set up a bipartisan approach in January with even a loose power-sharing arrangement, it might have helped.
I briefly pondered the same idea, but got reminded of all of McCarthy's pathetic betrayals by the WaPo article you quoted. That settled it for me. Fuck Kevin McCarthy. He deserves every ounce of this humiliation, as does the GOP. A pox on all of them.
Thanks for this quick update from someone in the room where it happened. Once again the majority party has demonstrated that it not only has no interest in governing, but that "majority" and "party" are quickly going out of favor too.
I was also initially wondering why the Democratic caucus would not step in to save McCarthy, but after reading and listening to some commentary, the reason is painfully obvious. Kevin isn't a "sane" voice, or someone who is on the side of preserving democracy. His actions after Jan 6th sealed his fate. I really don't think it's reasonable to expect Democrats to support him because that somehow suggests he's better than the alternative. He clearly isn't, and he has done absolutely nothing to show real bipartisanship or interest in moving away from the precipice. He is absolutely the architect of his own downfall and I think it's a little strange to expect his opponents to save him. For what purpose? How many times? Gaetz could just run the scenario again and again.
No-one knows who the alternative is yet, but good luck getting anyone more radical elected to the speakership. The Republicans need to fully own this mess.
Addicts have to hit rock bottom before they recognize the need to fundamentally change. The majority party is addicted to MAGA. The minority party voted to let the majority party hit rock bottom.
Well, the minority party acted in unison and banded together with the leaders' opinion. McCarthy promised "nothing" for the minority party while expecting them to bail him out. No dice! Let chaos prevail for a while and after the dust settles. some sense will prevail, I hope.
How about "Jeff voted not to support a speaker who had repeatedly caved in to extremist demands to punish Joe Biden and had reneged on agreements with Democrats and his own party". Does that sound better? You can believe whichever framing you want. See my other other response to H.P. for why I believe the Democrats made the right choice.
How about decided not to back someone who refused to negotiate with them for their votes, reneged of the debt deal, started an impeachment inquiry, and then blamed them for the near shutdown on live television.
See the "Democrats' Distrust" section, part-way down this article, for a list of ten reasons that House Democrats might not have been in favor of helping Speaker Kevin McCarthy retain his post:
I completely agree. I think the Dems had an opportunity to avoid a lot of problems down the road by giving McCarthy the ability to ignore the far-right. Even if Gaetz were to attempt this again, it would not be close if McCarthy stays centrist enough (just enough to not shutdown the govt, for example). McCarthy would have been effectively managed through the inevitable nature of his being fired if he swayed too far in either direction (too right or too centrist). This could have only been possible if McCarthy did not make any promises to the Dems (which would have lead to his firing as well as loss of his political future).
Now, there is nothing stopping the far-right from gaining power by only supporting someone as radical as they are. They already demonstrated that they do not care about repercussions to the country (or their party) buy making drastic moves.
Jeff, I wish you had showed some political guts here and stood up for the country. I would really love for you to explain your reasoning for your vote (without resorting to the short-sighted views of the WashPo article quoted above).
Oh, and just to be petty, the “not Jeff” NC congressman decided to take away Pelosi’s office during his 5 minute of fame. I’m not sure how that became his first needed action, but Pelosi’s reaction was priceless.
You don't need to be a member of Congress to be speaker. I think former Senator Al Franken (who was rather unfairly forced to resign for being funny and slightly sexist at the same time) would make a great speaker. I don't think he would tolerate much nonsense.
The Crazy Train has officially jumped the track and is now plunging into the abyss. I sincerely hope there are enough Members (on both sides...and wouldn't it be nice if there were more "sides?") with your sense of duty and responsibility to pull us back from the brink. Thank you again for the first-person POV!
As others have pointed out, it was a lose-lose scenario from the minute the far-righters decided to pursue this tactic. So, yes, he and everyone else was on the train (and still are), but it is up to the majority party to sort itself out and put the business of running the country ahead of fringe's desire to espouse their policy desires to whoever will listen.
Just read learned the Jim Jordan is running for house. If you think Kevin was a disaster Jim Jordan as a speaker would be equal to the sinking of the Titanic!
The Republican Party is literally being destroyed by the 10 Extreme Right exhibitionists who prefer the spotlight to maintaining a healthily functioning National Democratic Republic. Shame. May their moment of fame fade into a legacy of infamy.
Thanks Jeff for this explainer but I simply don't see the sense in allowing Gaetz, Inc any win at all. It's zero sum at this point. His tribe wins and everyone else loses.
I can't bring myself to believe there aren't enough House Republicans and Democrats eager and willing to drive a stake through the heart of the Freedom Caucus and the Gaetz's in the House. It would be a win-win for rational government and the American people.
If the Democrats saved McCarthy what do you think happens next? Gaetz just does this again and again. Center of attention for weeks, Now he has to own what he has done. They made the right choice.
I agree. McCarthy cannot be trusted to do what he promises, which he proved by reneging on his handshake deal with Biden. Why should Dems enable more of that behavior?
We agree on McCarthy, at least. And I wish House members could work together for longer than a brief, shining moment.Our country would benefit from that.
Rob, if the Democrats back-stop McCarthy(as unworthy as he is) then Gaetz and his crowd are neutered. Institutionally, that's more important than whether McCarthy is Speaker or not.
After saving him once, let McCarthy know he will only have the continued support of the Democrats who kept him in office is if he stops caving to the far right.
I didn't say trust him, but I think that any replacement the Republicans come up with will be WORSE than McCarthy. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
But then McCarthy and every other R who voted to stop the chaos would be primaried and lose their seat, if not something worse. These pols are afraid -- PHYSICALLY AFRAID -- of their voters in a way that D pols are not.
It's a problem how frantically some of these members, on both sides, hang on to some scrap of power. Some moderate Rs might lose their seat but better to go out on one's feet than one's knees.
Especially when you consider its spokesman is the sanctimonious, but previously admitted, or possibly convicted person who should be a felon for paying for sex and taking an underage girl out of the country for sex. No wonder he supports Donald Trump fully — absolutely no integrity.
Yeah, I don't understand how some of these people have the nerve to even show their face, let alone complain about other people's "sins". They have absolutely no shame. And now, Jim Jordan will run for Speaker. I want to puke.
Usually I would agree. The crazy clown caucus gets way too much press. However, it would be difficult for the press to avoid covering a historical ouster of US SoTH.
Agree. I'm referring to the mass of press people gathering around Gaetz after the vote to hear his words of wisdom. Wish they wouldn't give him the satisfaction. Besides, we don't need to hear whatever he has to say.
Thank you as ever Jeff for your observations on House processes. Here is a letter I just submitted to the Asheville Citizen-Times: "Congressman Patrick McHenry is short of stature. But the real testament of his being a little man is the fact that his first act as speaker pro tempore was to give Nancy Pelosi, who was in California to attend Diane Feinstein's funeral, 24 hours to vacate her office.
I was also originally hoping the Ds would bail out McCarthy simply for the sake of governance. But see below an excerpt from another newsletter yesterday:
=============
Why Democrats might not want to save Kevin.
Let us count the ways — and it’s quite a list: Via the Wapo:
*McCarthy didn’t vote to certify the election on Jan. 6, 2021. The attack on the U.S. Capitol is still raw on Capitol Hill, and Democrats will never forgive McCarthy for voting against certification after the mob was cleared from the building.
*McCarthy said former president Donald Trump was responsible for the Jan. 6 riot — and then, a few weeks later, traveled to Mar-a-Lago and took an infamous picture with Trump with their thumbs up. Democrats are still furious about the incident, which helped revive Trump politically and whitewash the severity of his role on Jan. 6.
*McCarthy worked against the creation of the Jan. 6 select committee, which Democrats viewed as an attempt to protect Trump.
*McCarthy gave the Jan. 6 security footage to since-fired television host Tucker Carlson without releasing it to news outlets.
*McCarthy delivered votes for the Cares Act — a $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief bill passed in 2020 and signed by Trump — and later became highly critical of pandemic relief legislation.
*He worked with Democrats to help put together the microchips manufacturing bill last year and then whipped his party to vote against it.
*McCarthy backed out of a spending agreement he made with President Biden as part of a deal to lift the debt limit less than two weeks after Biden signed the law in an attempt to placate the furious conservatives in his conference. Democrats on the House floor on Saturday chanted, “Keep your word!”
*McCarthy said in August that he would hold a vote on the House floor to open an impeachment inquiry against Biden. In September, on the first day back from summer recess, McCarthy opened an impeachment inquiry and did not hold such a vote.
*On Saturday morning, McCarthy didn’t give lawmakers 72 hours to read the short-term spending bill to keep the government open despite House rules. Republicans argued that it was an amendment and not a full bill so the 72-hour rule didn’t apply. But Democrats were given just minutes to read it and vote on it despite asking Republican leadership for more time. (Democrats deployed stalling tactics to get about two hours to read and discuss the bill.)
*On Sunday, McCarthy went on CBS’s “Face the Nation” and charged Democrats with wanting a shutdown. That infuriated Democrats, who voted nearly unanimously for the government spending bill when fewer than half of Republicans did.
==============
McCarthy effectively did this to himself. If he had set up a bipartisan approach in January with even a loose power-sharing arrangement, it might have helped.
Watching McCarthy as Speaker, his actions showed that he would not honor his word. He made too many promises that he didn’t keep.
I briefly pondered the same idea, but got reminded of all of McCarthy's pathetic betrayals by the WaPo article you quoted. That settled it for me. Fuck Kevin McCarthy. He deserves every ounce of this humiliation, as does the GOP. A pox on all of them.
Minor nit, but I'm a stickler on citing sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/10/03/why-democrats-might-not-want-save-mccarthy/
Thanks, Peter!
And since that WaPo article is likely paywalled for some readers, MSN also 'reprinted' it here:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-democrats-might-not-want-to-save-mccarthy/ar-AA1hCqGl
Thanks for spelling it all out, I had forgotten a couple of them. Never trusted that guy.
Thanks for this quick update from someone in the room where it happened. Once again the majority party has demonstrated that it not only has no interest in governing, but that "majority" and "party" are quickly going out of favor too.
The vast majority of the majority party voted in favor of governing. Jeff voted with Gaetz in favor of chaos.
Here's what I posted in another thread.
I was also initially wondering why the Democratic caucus would not step in to save McCarthy, but after reading and listening to some commentary, the reason is painfully obvious. Kevin isn't a "sane" voice, or someone who is on the side of preserving democracy. His actions after Jan 6th sealed his fate. I really don't think it's reasonable to expect Democrats to support him because that somehow suggests he's better than the alternative. He clearly isn't, and he has done absolutely nothing to show real bipartisanship or interest in moving away from the precipice. He is absolutely the architect of his own downfall and I think it's a little strange to expect his opponents to save him. For what purpose? How many times? Gaetz could just run the scenario again and again.
No-one knows who the alternative is yet, but good luck getting anyone more radical elected to the speakership. The Republicans need to fully own this mess.
In fewer words - KM simply cannot be trusted to honor agreements he has made - a man without a moral compass.
You couldn' t have wrapped it up better!
No they didn't!
They voted for Kevin McCarthy. Kevin McCarthy has NEVER governed for the benefit of this country. EVER!!!
His motivations have been:
- Tax Cuts, Tax Cuts, Tax Cuts for the Rich, Rich, Rich
- How to become Speaker at ALL COSTS
- Groveling to the #OrangeAtrocity
That's It! PERIOD!!!
Addicts have to hit rock bottom before they recognize the need to fundamentally change. The majority party is addicted to MAGA. The minority party voted to let the majority party hit rock bottom.
Well, the minority party acted in unison and banded together with the leaders' opinion. McCarthy promised "nothing" for the minority party while expecting them to bail him out. No dice! Let chaos prevail for a while and after the dust settles. some sense will prevail, I hope.
No, Jeff voted to END the lies and chaos.
Is that right, Jeff?
How about "Jeff voted not to support a speaker who had repeatedly caved in to extremist demands to punish Joe Biden and had reneged on agreements with Democrats and his own party". Does that sound better? You can believe whichever framing you want. See my other other response to H.P. for why I believe the Democrats made the right choice.
How about "Jeff voted with Matt Gaetz to bring down the government, block Ukraine aid, and shut down the government in 45 days."
How about decided not to back someone who refused to negotiate with them for their votes, reneged of the debt deal, started an impeachment inquiry, and then blamed them for the near shutdown on live television.
See the "Democrats' Distrust" section, part-way down this article, for a list of ten reasons that House Democrats might not have been in favor of helping Speaker Kevin McCarthy retain his post:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-democrats-might-not-want-to-save-mccarthy/ar-AA1hCqGl
YOUR party did this, but YOUR PARTY never takes responsibility for anything.
GOP - The Party of Personal IRRESPONSIBILITY.
P.S. Do you still collect a nickel for these posts or have they kicked you up to 6 cents?
I completely agree. I think the Dems had an opportunity to avoid a lot of problems down the road by giving McCarthy the ability to ignore the far-right. Even if Gaetz were to attempt this again, it would not be close if McCarthy stays centrist enough (just enough to not shutdown the govt, for example). McCarthy would have been effectively managed through the inevitable nature of his being fired if he swayed too far in either direction (too right or too centrist). This could have only been possible if McCarthy did not make any promises to the Dems (which would have lead to his firing as well as loss of his political future).
Now, there is nothing stopping the far-right from gaining power by only supporting someone as radical as they are. They already demonstrated that they do not care about repercussions to the country (or their party) buy making drastic moves.
Jeff, I wish you had showed some political guts here and stood up for the country. I would really love for you to explain your reasoning for your vote (without resorting to the short-sighted views of the WashPo article quoted above).
Oh, and just to be petty, the “not Jeff” NC congressman decided to take away Pelosi’s office during his 5 minute of fame. I’m not sure how that became his first needed action, but Pelosi’s reaction was priceless.
She is and continues to be a class act, even in the midst of grief over the death of her good friend, Senator Feinstein.
To paraphrase someone else (I believe Charlie Sykes): the cruelty is the point.
He took away Stenny Hoyer’s office too. Just plain bombastic bully nastiness.
You don't need to be a member of Congress to be speaker. I think former Senator Al Franken (who was rather unfairly forced to resign for being funny and slightly sexist at the same time) would make a great speaker. I don't think he would tolerate much nonsense.
Your insight, honesty and effort in providing these updates is invaluable. Thank you so much.
Thanks, once again for taking the time to spell things out. You are a credit to your state. Unfortunately the pro-tem is not.
The Crazy Train has officially jumped the track and is now plunging into the abyss. I sincerely hope there are enough Members (on both sides...and wouldn't it be nice if there were more "sides?") with your sense of duty and responsibility to pull us back from the brink. Thank you again for the first-person POV!
But isn’t he ON it, with his vote?
As others have pointed out, it was a lose-lose scenario from the minute the far-righters decided to pursue this tactic. So, yes, he and everyone else was on the train (and still are), but it is up to the majority party to sort itself out and put the business of running the country ahead of fringe's desire to espouse their policy desires to whoever will listen.
Just read learned the Jim Jordan is running for house. If you think Kevin was a disaster Jim Jordan as a speaker would be equal to the sinking of the Titanic!
Thank you for the update. I am so grateful to you for these "quick" updates.
The Republican Party is literally being destroyed by the 10 Extreme Right exhibitionists who prefer the spotlight to maintaining a healthily functioning National Democratic Republic. Shame. May their moment of fame fade into a legacy of infamy.
Last I heard, Gaetz was planning to run for governor of Florida with trump’s endorsement.
Thanks Jeff for this explainer but I simply don't see the sense in allowing Gaetz, Inc any win at all. It's zero sum at this point. His tribe wins and everyone else loses.
I can't bring myself to believe there aren't enough House Republicans and Democrats eager and willing to drive a stake through the heart of the Freedom Caucus and the Gaetz's in the House. It would be a win-win for rational government and the American people.
If the Democrats saved McCarthy what do you think happens next? Gaetz just does this again and again. Center of attention for weeks, Now he has to own what he has done. They made the right choice.
I agree. McCarthy cannot be trusted to do what he promises, which he proved by reneging on his handshake deal with Biden. Why should Dems enable more of that behavior?
We agree on McCarthy, at least. And I wish House members could work together for longer than a brief, shining moment.Our country would benefit from that.
Let's agree to disagree. Enjoy the Superbowl if you're a football fan.
Rob, if the Democrats back-stop McCarthy(as unworthy as he is) then Gaetz and his crowd are neutered. Institutionally, that's more important than whether McCarthy is Speaker or not.
After saving him once, let McCarthy know he will only have the continued support of the Democrats who kept him in office is if he stops caving to the far right.
He's in this spot because he straight up told them they would get nothing.
McCarthy already went back on his word with the debt ceiling. WHY would ANYONE trust him?!
I didn't say trust him, but I think that any replacement the Republicans come up with will be WORSE than McCarthy. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
I tend to agree but I tremble at how stupid that man is.
But then McCarthy and every other R who voted to stop the chaos would be primaried and lose their seat, if not something worse. These pols are afraid -- PHYSICALLY AFRAID -- of their voters in a way that D pols are not.
It's a problem how frantically some of these members, on both sides, hang on to some scrap of power. Some moderate Rs might lose their seat but better to go out on one's feet than one's knees.
Agreed.
Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats could trust McCarthy. Why would either want to keep him around?
[[Then a congressman from North Carolina (not me!) walked to the podium and told us that he was now the Acting Speaker. ]]
I almost kinda wish you had used some of that Snow Day energy, Jeff. :-)
Thank you for the inside scoop-I appreciate you so much! 💗
And the press is giving the right-flank all the publicity they seek. So sad.
Especially when you consider its spokesman is the sanctimonious, but previously admitted, or possibly convicted person who should be a felon for paying for sex and taking an underage girl out of the country for sex. No wonder he supports Donald Trump fully — absolutely no integrity.
Yeah, I don't understand how some of these people have the nerve to even show their face, let alone complain about other people's "sins". They have absolutely no shame. And now, Jim Jordan will run for Speaker. I want to puke.
Usually I would agree. The crazy clown caucus gets way too much press. However, it would be difficult for the press to avoid covering a historical ouster of US SoTH.
Agree. I'm referring to the mass of press people gathering around Gaetz after the vote to hear his words of wisdom. Wish they wouldn't give him the satisfaction. Besides, we don't need to hear whatever he has to say.
What?
Thank you Jeff! I so wish you were my Congressman!!
Me too!!!
Thank you as ever Jeff for your observations on House processes. Here is a letter I just submitted to the Asheville Citizen-Times: "Congressman Patrick McHenry is short of stature. But the real testament of his being a little man is the fact that his first act as speaker pro tempore was to give Nancy Pelosi, who was in California to attend Diane Feinstein's funeral, 24 hours to vacate her office.